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Buzzard
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
267 Posts |
 Posted - 07/27/2010 : 07:21:56 AM
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Im experimenting with double tracking Acoustic guitar using a single condenser mic one each take,im experiencing some phaseing issues when i pan & replay the two tracks i.e very slight level drops to one side or unusual sounding audio..
I've read that using a different mic/guitar on each take could be the answer or record two takes with the same mic & slightly eq one track...
Does anyone have any advice on the subject or know of any good links so i can read up on this more...?
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Buzz... |
Edited by - Buzzard on 07/27/2010 07:22:57 AM |
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dirtysteve
Silver Member
USA
603 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2010 : 2:40:06 PM
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What kind of mic are you tracking with Buzz? People argue about this but IME there is no doubt that some mics that use cheap components can have phase issues. So if you have a mic with phase issues and you're double tracking, the effect becomes amplified (or apparent).
Try inverting the phase on one of the doubled tracks and see what difference it makes.
Also, try using two different mic's on the performances and see if that remedies the problem.
Another issue could be that you're tracking each performance in stereo instead of mono. If that's the case, try tracking each performance in mono...then pan L/R and see if that's better.
That's all I can think of off the top of my head at the moment. |
Always fly high |
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Buzzard
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
267 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2010 : 6:06:37 PM
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I've tried a 10 year old TLM 103 cardoid condenser & just aquired a royer 121 ribbon,both started to sound impressive after alot of moving around & looking for sweet spots,seemed to be around the 12/14th fret,both takes where done with the same mic so yeah maybe i should try using each mic on each take & see if that makes any difference..maybe different guitars
The main problems seemed to be on playback when i panned them left & right with slight drops from one side,very faint but just noticable..
I trying to get a great acoustic tracked & then track the vox & mix,im guessing once i can crack it & get a decent sound im away..
Sometimes i listen to a great acoustic vocal track i.e Don Henley & think wow that's amazing but there's nothing there just great sounding space |
Buzz... |
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Old Goat
Bronze Member
276 Posts |
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Buzzard
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
267 Posts |
Posted - 07/29/2010 : 07:42:02 AM
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quote:
Originally posted by Old Goat
I usually track my Guild, and use my Alvarez Blond Balladeer if I want to double up. Haven't noticed any phasing.
I second dirtysteve in flipping the phase on one track. I do that a lot. May not leave it switched, but I'll try it.
flipping the phase on one track? do you mean while tracking of after? |
Buzz... |
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Old Goat
Bronze Member
276 Posts |
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Buzzard
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
267 Posts |
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lawapa
Moderator
USA
1963 Posts |
Posted - 07/30/2010 : 6:10:49 PM
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When I double track a guitar I've not run into phase issues, even using the same guitar/mic setup But If I'm not diligent about tuning I have experienced a slight chorus like effect.
If you have a very good tuner you can exaggerate this effect by detuning a few cents. That's cents not semitones.
A capo can add depth to a double track. But you do have to use different cords/positions
With phase issues I run into a comb filer type effect that's not so pleasing to the ear.
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Love to make that music,as well I love to tweak,Make my own sample sets |
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Buzzard
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
267 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2010 : 06:35:12 AM
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Yep the guitar was tuned up before the session with a good tuner that i've used for years..the thing i noticed Larry was a slight dip of the audio to one side if very slight & i wondered if anyone else had the same thing happen..
Perhaps i moved about too much when i recorded one of the takes & the mic picked it up..im just not sure
Anyway i'll track some more & see how it goes till i get it right,must addmitt it is sounding quite sweet with the vocal on top
When you double track in Mono do you use the same mic position for both takes?
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Buzz... |
Edited by - Buzzard on 07/31/2010 06:42:36 AM |
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dirtysteve
Silver Member
USA
603 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2010 : 1:22:00 PM
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quote:
Originally posted by Buzzard
Yep the guitar was tuned up before the session with a good tuner that i've used for years..the thing i noticed Larry was a slight dip of the audio to one side if very slight & i wondered if anyone else had the same thing happen..
Perhaps i moved about too much when i recorded one of the takes & the mic picked it up..im just not sure
Anyway i'll track some more & see how it goes till i get it right,must addmitt it is sounding quite sweet with the vocal on top
When you double track in Mono do you use the same mic position for both takes?
When I double ac guitar parts I keep in mind that different is better. Different is god, different is creative. A little detuning here a different mic position there, maybe even change the phrasing slightly if it works and play with the other part as opposed to strictly mirroring it. For the most part, yes, you're trying to mirror the first take to thicken it, but you're also trying to add dimension...so be creative.
A perfect example is "Dogs" from Pink Floyd's Animals record. Listen to Gilmour's brilliant work with the ac guitar's on that track...wow! he really goes out on a limb with that one IMHO. Creating stereo panning tricks even but creating the whole experience by changing the part he plays that's been panned to the right channel. Left channel and Right channel he's playing something completely different..."ingenious".
I could go on and on about this subject but don't want to bore everyone. |
Always fly high |
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Buzzard
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
267 Posts |
Posted - 07/31/2010 : 4:28:07 PM
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Yep Dirtysteve thanks for the tips great advice...
just listened to the track never heard that one & see exactly what you mean,I luv the ac guitar on Floyds "wish you were here" when the verse comes in,although im already a big Floyd fan i think Gilmour is an amazing guitar player but what an electric sound on there albums wow...saying that what a sound they got..i must give there albums another listen..i'll dig em out
Any advice you can give me for tracking elec guitar in general? |
Buzz... |
Edited by - Buzzard on 07/31/2010 4:34:06 PM |
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dirtysteve
Silver Member
USA
603 Posts |
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Buzzard
Bronze Member
United Kingdom
267 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2010 : 05:41:20 AM
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| Yep crazy guy but some great advise made me laugh more than once....Thanks |
Buzz... |
Edited by - Buzzard on 08/01/2010 05:42:48 AM |
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firefox
Gold Member
USA
1265 Posts |
Posted - 08/15/2010 : 1:21:20 PM
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| if it's a phase issue you can see it. Zoom in to the sample level where you can see the waves going up and down an compare the two tracks if one is going up while on is going down, it's out of phase. actually it's really out of phase if it's a quarter of a wavelength out. A quarter wavelength-90 degrees is maximum amplitude.. nudge one track until the waves match.. |
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